Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:13:14 -0700
Subject: Kids schedule
From: Me
To: G
G,
I have attached a schedule that shows what the kids will be doing through the holidays. With H and my brother both in town in December I needed to be able to see what was going on with the kids. As you can see I will be using a week of vacation during this time. However, since I know how important it is for the kids to see you I DO have time scheduled in the middle of it for them to have time with you. As usual, I will drop them off in the morning and then meet you the next afternoon at 4 to pick them up. Please let this serve as my notice for my 2011 vacation. Also, I will be taking the kids North to Williams on the night of the 15th. Please let this also serve as my notice to taking them outside of the county. We will be taking the Polar Express and then staying at the Residence Inn in Flagstaff for the night. We will return home on the 16th.
One last thing: The fact that you do not have a job does not qualify for switching to the weekend schedule. However, I am willing to be flexible for the holiday season as a trial period. If it doesn’t work for any reason, we will need to follow the decree since (without a job) you still have the ability to have the children during the week and do not ‘need’ my weekends off to have meaningful time with them.
A
Mon
|
Tues
|
Wed
|
Thurs
|
Fri
|
Sat
| ||
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
November
|
To G at 6:30am
|
G return them at 4 pm
|
G pick up from school at 4 pm
|
G
| ||||
school
|
School
|
School
| |||||
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
| |
G
|
**G Birthday**
|
G return to school in the AM
|
G T'giving holiday at 12:00
|
G return children at 12:00
| |||
School
|
School
| ||||||
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
December
|
To G at 6:30am
|
G return them at 4 pm
|
G pick up from school at 4 pm
|
G
| ||||
School
|
School
|
School
| |||||
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
| |
G
|
G return to school in the AM
| ||||||
School
|
School
|
School
|
School
|
School
| |||
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
| |
To G at 6:30am
|
G return them at 4 pm
| ||||||
VAC
|
VAC
|
VAC
|
VAC
| ||||
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
| |
To G at 6:30am
|
G return them at 4 pm
|
To G at 12 pm for Xmas Holiday
|
G returns children at 8pm
| ||||
VAC
|
VAC
|
VAC
|
VAC
|
VAC
| |||
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
| |
Christmas holiday for A
|
To G at 6:30am
|
G return them at 4 pm
|
New Years Eve/New Years Day holiday for A
| ||||
School
|
School
| ||||||
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
January
|
New Years Eve/New Years Day holiday for A
|
New Years Eve/New Years Day holiday for A
|
To G at 6:30am
|
G return them at 4 pm
|
G pick up from school at 4 pm
|
G
| ||
School
|
School
| ||||||
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
| |
G
|
G return to school in the AM
| ||||||
School
|
School
|
School
|
School
|
School
|
On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:17 PM, G wrote:
A,
I don"t understand your spreadsheet. Please add grid lines to make it easier to read. Please clarify the dates you are requesting to use for you 2011 vacation time. Without those dates in writing you haven't given me the 30 days required. You can plan your 9 day vacation time in the middle of my weekend visits without impacting my weekend parenting time and my weekly days can be changed. Having any company in town doesn't change that. My days are flexible for the moment and until I have a job I plan on seeing them as much as I can. Please keep that in mind while trying to plan your request. I will not be skipped over because you want the kids for your vacation time. I would however be open to moving my weekend days to during the week or trading you weekends. Please clarify so we can work together in meeting these goals.
This isn't like you are doing me a favor or "allowing" something different than our decree. Joint legal parenting means making decisions together. This is about to what's best for all of us. Being difficult and/or acting like all the decisions are yours and yours alone will bring us back to court. I have been up front and the only deviations I have asked for were for our mutual financial benefit. I haven't asked for any time that is your time with the kids. I want to switch to the weekend parenting schedule in order to assist in my job hunt. If that for some reason doesn't work for you please explain why.
-G
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:46:49 -0700
Subject: Re: Kids schedule
From: Me
To: G
Vacation from December 14th - 22nd.
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:59 AM, G wrote:
You are attempting to skip my days with the kids on Dec 16 thru 18th. I will not permit that. I would be willing to trade those days for others. Which weekend would you like to trade? Or shall I contact the court for an enforcement order?
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2011 07:31:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Kids schedule
From: A
To: G
H is here from Dec 9th - 19th.
R and family are here from Dec 19th - 28th; with V here only from the 19th - 23rd.
All of them want to see the kids as much as possible. Please keep in mind the amount of flexability you offer while I have company in town is the same amount of flexability you can expect from me when you have family in town. HOWEVER, with that said, I am using vacation time. There is nothing in the papers that says you or I get to make up any parenting time when there is a vacation scheduled OR holidays. If this doesn't work for you then take me to court.
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:19 AM, G wrote:
There isn't anything in the vacation section that says you get to skip my visitation either. All I am asking for is that you trade me a weekend. is that so difficult? How would you feel if I took my vacation time on one of your weekends? You would only get to see the kids 2 or 3 out of 17 nights. If you do this count on me doing something like this: I would get the kids my weekend, starting a Friday afternoon, have them until Monday morning. Pick them up again Tuesday after school and keep them until the following Thursday morning, and them pick then pick them up again Friday after school and you'd have them back Monday afternoon 18 days later. I understand you want them to see their cousins as much as possible as do I. However that shouldn't interfere with my already limited access. Let's compromise. Find a weekend that you are willing to give up so the kids and I can see each or I will either see you in court or use our arrangement to keep the kids for 2 weeks to a month. This is essentially what you are doing to me so turn about is apparently fair.
AGAIN, let's compromise. I'll take them 2 weekends in a row, the first weekends of December.
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:43 PM, G wrote:
Well since you haven't responded and I have no other days I can use for my 2011 vacation this is your notice for my Vacation time for Dec 26 through the 31st at noon.
From: A
to G
5:31 PM
I am tired of this shit. You always have to make things an argument and so much harder than they have to be. If you want to scream ‘Court’ every time things don’t go exactly your way, then go for it. I have been more than flexible and am confident the court will see that. I have actually been flexible to a fault and I guess there isn’t reason to do that anymore.
When we outlined vacations we stated that they would be for 9 days instead of just 7 so it could extend through 2 weekends. This means that yes, if you take vacation you will be “cutting into my time”. I was not doing all of this to keep you from the kids or hurt you in some way; I understand we both need to spend time with them and they need to see both of us. I don’t put my kids in the middle of things to ‘make you suffer’. If you actually read the schedule, I even set it up so you had a night in the middle of my vacation so you could see the kids and they could see you. It is about them first, and then you or me.
I have been flexible with you in the past. I constantly work with you on your scheduled time with the kids every month. For example:
· You had a schedule that did not let you take the kids during the week. You wanted to pick them up and take them to dinner a couple of nights to be able to see them. I agreed 08/19 and 08/23
· You wanted them on a weekend instead of during the week when your mother was in town. I agreed. 08/26-08/28
· You wanted them on a Sunday because you had not seen them for a week and wouldn't have them yet for a couple more days. I agreed 09/04
· You wanted alone time with each of the kids, I agreed. 09/11 and 09/13 (the only time you have asked for it)
· You wanted them early to take them to Boo at Zoo, I agreed. 10/23
I have also had to change numerous plans when you were suppose to have the kids but either didn't have them or returned them early for one reason or another. i.e. your work schedule, you wanted a date night, medical appointments, emergencies, the kids ‘weren’t having fun’.
Then you asked to change the schedule to the weekend schedule. Not because you are working during the week when you would have them, but because you want additional time to spend with them. I understood that. So, in the interest of being flexible and allowing you more time with the kids (and them with you), I agreed to this on a trial basis even though it cuts into my time with them. Because during this time of unemployment, you can still take the kids during the week and have full days with them; I only get full days during the weekend of which you want half of! If anyone had a right to be upset it was me.
However, at this point it is just causing more confusion to try to be flexible so NO WEEKENDS. The papers state you get weekends when you have a job that makes your days off during the weekend. You could easily end up with another job with your days off during the week. SO we go back to the original schedule where your days are during the week and we will follow a holiday schedule like this instead. And, for the kids sake, as long as they see you weekly, they are fine.
Don't ask me for any more favors or flexibility. I am done with being flexible.
| Sun | Mon | Tues | Wed | Thurs | Fri | Sat | ||
| 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | November | |
| G | ||||||||
| school | School | School | ||||||
| 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | ||
| G | G | G | G | |||||
| School | ||||||||
| 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 1 | 2 | 3 | December | |
| G | ||||||||
| School | School | School | ||||||
| 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | ||
| G | G | G | ||||||
| School | School | School | ||||||
| 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | ||
| G | ||||||||
| VAC | VAC | VAC | VAC | |||||
| 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | ||
| G | ||||||||
| VAC | VAC | VAC | VAC | VAC | ||||
| 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | ||
| G | ||||||||
| School | School | |||||||
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | January | |
| G | G | G | ||||||
| School | School | |||||||
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:14 PM, G wrote:
You are right, you have been flexible. The kids and I have enjoyed the extra time together. The thing is, you have the kids a majority of the time, and one of the court requirements for primary custody is which ever parent is more likely to let the other parent see the kids; that implies flexibility on your part. If this isn't about you or me and truly about the kids you'd want them to see me whenever possible, especially when it doesn't affect your time with them. I understand if you don't want to switch to weekends because it does affect your days with the kids. I asked and you agreed. I didn't demand, I asked for weekends because it makes sense. I am upset and hurt that you are basically asking for the whole month of December because you have company. I understand you want to spend as much time with them and your company, but that isn't a reason to limit the kids time with me. They need to spend time with both of us, especially around the holidays. The emphasis is "US", extended family and friends are important but this is our first holiday divorced and frankly the kids need us both more than anyone else. I am willing to try to work this out but your solution is too limiting for their access to me during the holidays and you haven't offered any other solutions.
The only solution I see, since you won't budge anywhere else, is to take my vacation time for 2011 to start Dec 26th at 8 am and last through the 5th of January. I will bring them back to you for the specified times required for new years. Please add that to your calendar so you don't forget. I don't have plans to leave town yet but I will provide them as soon as I do. It is possible my family will be coming to me some I will be in town. Please confirm whether or not you have a problem with this as my 2011 vacation time without using any part of my 2012 time. Understand, I am not trying to keep the kids from seeing their extended family but, this is our first holiday apart and that takes precedence over anything else.
My parents have rights to see the kids too. Had I known that you were going to insist they only see the kids only on my time, without flexibility on your part, I would have insisted on their time being more clearly defined. I will let them know that they need to establish their own visitation arrangements so our disagreements don't affect their relationship with S and T. Please let me know what you would be willing to agree to so I can run it by them and have an attorney draft an agreement.
I am not trying to make things more difficult or start arguments. Put yourself in my shoes and look over the schedule for December. Would you want what you are proposing? Put yourself in my shoes and ask if you'd ask for anything less than what I have asked for in the past? How would you feel? Would you ask to spend as many days as possible with your kids? If you weren't working, would you want to spend everyday with them instead of having them be watched by someone else? Wouldn't you want as much flexibility from me as possible for S and T to know you parents? You may have asked differently but you still would have asked. Look deep down and look at how you'd feel about such limited time with S and T? The court card is the only thing I have to motivate you to be flexible. If it was all you had, wouldn't you use it?
Now, are we really going to keep this antagonistic behavior up? I can't take it. I can't take being this hurt and angry all the time. It's affecting my whole world. In a perfect world we'd be happily married. We aren't and now I am close to starting another family. The only thing holding me back is all the crap between us. I really don't care about the Escape. In fact, I hate it. It has become a boon to getting better and healing. Wells Fargo doesn't call or contact me. I propose we get Wells Fargo and all other accounts that are tied as collateral to the Escape to settle so we can put all those things behind us. I am willing to sell the car tomorrow and give you everything over the first $1500 if you agree to pay the Wells account and anything else tied to the Escape and the state taxes. I think the Escape will sell for about $3500. You say $5000. That leaves at least $2k for account settlements. As for the taxes, I offered a way to get $300 taken care of. If you won't do it, get me the turbo tax info and I will. Otherwise the state will get their money when I file my taxes for 2011. I have been paying extra to state taxes all year and it should be enough to cover the $550. If you have anyother ideas on how to use the Escape to eliminate or fix some of the things causing issues, please share them. Keep in mind I do need transportation and and not willing to go car less.
-G
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 12:44 PM, G wrote:
A,
Please confirm receipt of my vacation notice for December 26th, 2011 at 9 am through December 31st, 2011 at noon.
Thank you,
G
From A
1:24 PM (11 minutes ago)
to G
I feel like the schedule I wrote up was fair. Otherwise I wouldn’t have sent it. Threatening me with court and lawyers doesn’t make me want to work with you on a compromise; so it isn’t a good tactic.
Anytime you would have had family in town I would have been willing to work with you on having extra time with the kids so your family could see them. I wouldn’t even have required you take vacation time for that. Because it IS important for the kids to see their extended family. ALL of them. Which includes my family AND yours. However, with that said, the time they see that family is when we are with them. NO, your parents do not get their own rights to see the kids. My mom sees the kids when they are with me. My dad will get to see the kids when they are with me when he is in town or if I use my VACATION time to go visit him. He doesn’t get to see the kids for his own vacation time. You are greatly confused as to grandparent’s rights. Please feel free to discuss with a lawyer and they will tell you the same. The ONLY way it would be different is if you DIED. And even then those rights are based off how often our kids saw them and how big of a role they played in the kids’ lives. But all of that is beside the point. My hope would be that we can still work together for the sake of the kids and that they enjoy the various family and friends in our lives without so much stress that the kids pick up on it and are impacted or they lose out on important relationships. A mutually agreed upon schedule is a win for all.
Like I said, I feel like the holiday schedule was fair. As for your tantrum over it and invoking and wasting your vacation time, you are right I cannot keep you from doing so, no matter how childish it is.
As for putting myself in your shoes, I just can’t. Because if I were on the other side of things I would have been supporting my kids from the beginning not just waiting for the courts to came after my paycheck. I wouldn’t have quit my job because I have a responsibility to support my kids. I wouldn’t be letting my ex’s parents support my kids. I would take care of my responsibilities. And yes, I would want to spend as much time as I could with my kids but I would also recognize that being flexible and compromising would go a long way to allowing me my own flexibility later when I may need some special time/circumstances.
As for the financial stuff there is no “deals” or “compromises” to be made there. That was what the divorce was about – how to split these things up. And so they are already set up the way they are and you don’t get to change that. Unfortunately the taxes don’t get to wait for your refund. I have to call the tax guy TODAY to work out payment of them. Otherwise they go after my check after today. I already ASKED him to wait for the return. Frankly it is the government and they can do whatever the hell they want. And they want their money. I was also under the impression we were not discussing any finances anymore – did that change again?
So, back to the main issue at hand. If you have just talked to me about the schedule like a decent person and maybe offered solutions to a compromise this could have gone different. My intent was not to dictate, but to outline the busy holiday season – make trade offs where it had a lesser impact to the kids, to me, to you and the out of town guests as well.
**As I looked at the new schedule I set up I realized I screwed myself. I had a WIC appt on Tuesday 11/22 at 1pm. The kids have to be there. So I had the unpleasent task of asking G to allow me that time with the kids. So we met at QT for the exchange. I told him about the appointment. He said it was right in the middle of the kids naps. I said I knew that but it is hard to get an appointment and I have to take what they give. He asked why I didn't reschedule. I said it would probably be a month or more before we could get in again. Then he said they MIGHT be out of town but he would let me know. <sigh> Great. So he "can't" pay child support because he quit his job and now he is keeping me from being able to get assistance. Thanks. You kids thank you too.**
Text 5 minutes after we left the gas station =
Nov 16 4:20pm G: This must kinda suck for you. telling me just yesterday how inflexable you are going to be from now on and then having to turn around and ask me to be flexable.
(Asshole pissed me off. Fuck him. I don't want him to even try to be flexable. Even if I have to wait a goddam month I am calling to reschedule that appointment. Called WIC. They had a cancelation and we can get in this Friday at 2:45! :D HAHA! FUCKER!!!)
Nov 16 4:47pm Me: yes, it did suck. But then I called WIC and told them what a prick you were and they got us in this Friday. Thank you. PS you must provide 30 days notice before taking the children out of town.
Wed Nov 16 4:50 G: Out of the state? Sure.
(this is where my lawer screwed up. It was supposed to say out of the COUNTY, She wrote State or COUNTRY - crap)
Nov 16 4:51pm G: I am sure with the sudden nature of the change that a court would be understanding.
(I was done at this point. I spent the time with my kids having dinner and going to DQ)
From: G
2:27 PM (14 minutes ago)
to me
Here is my solution: Find more days for me to have the kids in the middle of December and I will withdraw my vacation request. It's easy, add up the days you are interfering with and figure out where I can get them instead without interfering with your other plans. That's not difficult and it allows maximum flexibility. I have counterpointed your email. You have turned down every offer I have made to support our kids, fix problems, and be flexible. I am sorry for you that you see that differently.
Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:24:49 -0700
Subject: Re: Please confirm receipt of Vacation Notice
From: Me
To: G
I feel like the schedule I wrote up was fair. So you consider it fair to unnecessarily take days from me. Otherwise I wouldn’t have sent it. Threatening me with court and lawyers doesn’t make me want to work with you on a compromise; so it isn’t a good tactic. You dictate: Here is the first sentence of the first email you wrote "I have attached a schedule that shows what the kids will be doing through the holidays". The underlined part sounds like a dictation to me. You never asked if I had a preference.
Anytime you would have had family in town I would have been willing to work with you on having extra time with the kids so your family could see them. I wouldn’t even have required you take vacation time for that. Because it IS important for the kids to see their extended family. ALL of them. Which includes my family AND yours. However, with that said, the time they see that family is when we are with them. NO, your parents do not get their own rights to see the kids. My mom sees the kids when they are with me. My dad will get to see the kids when they are with me when he is in town or if I use my VACATION time to go visit him. He doesn’t get to see the kids for his own vacation time. You are greatly confused as to grandparent’s rights. I agree that extended family is Important, I just disagree with your order of priority. Actually the non custodial parents grandparents do get rights. See below:
Visitation Rights
In 1983, the Arizona legislature amended the state's laws to create a legal right to visitation for grandparents and great-grandparents. Under ARS §25-409, grandparents may petition the court for visitation rights so long as it is in the child's best interests to have visitation with the grandparent and one of the following is true:
The child's parents have been divorced for at least 3 months and the grandparent is the parent of the child's non-custodial parent
One of the child's parents has been deceased or missing for at least 3 months and the grandparent is the parent of the child's deceased or missing parent
The child's parents were never married
Please feel free to discuss with a lawyer and they will tell you the same. The ONLY way it would be different is if you DIED. And even then those rights are based off how often our kids saw them and how big of a role they played in the kids’ lives. But all of that is beside the point. My hope would be that we can still work together for the sake of the kids and that they enjoy the various family and friends in our lives without so much stress that the kids pick up on it and are impacted or they lose out on important relationships. A mutually agreed upon schedule is a win for all. Agreed, I didn't like your offered schedule and asked for something else and you didn't respond.
Like I said, I feel like the holiday schedule was fair. As for your tantrum over it and invoking and wasting your vacation time, you are right I cannot keep you from doing so, no matter how childish it is.
As for putting myself in your shoes, I just can’t. Because if I were on the other side of things I would have been supporting my kids from the beginning not just waiting for the courts to came after my paycheck. I offered and accepted a payment I could afford. Those payments were made. I can not afford the current agreement. I wouldn’t have quit my job because I have a responsibility to support my kids. I offered to watch the kids so you wouldn't be burdened with paying for child care. This would be supporting the kids, but you won't allow it. I wouldn’t be letting my ex’s parents support my kids. You went to your parents for their support to divorce me, they knew what they were getting into. Without them in our business things would have turned out differently. I would take care of my responsibilities. I have offered what I can give and you refused. And yes, I would want to spend as much time as I could with my kids but I would also recognize that being flexible and compromising would go a long way to allowing me my own flexibility later when I may need some special time/circumstances.
As for the financial stuff there is no “deals” or “compromises” to be made there. That was what the divorce was about – how to split these things up. And so they are already set up the way they are and you don’t get to change that. Unfortunately the taxes don’t get to wait for your refund. I have to call the tax guy TODAY to work out payment of them. Otherwise they go after my check after today. I already ASKED him to wait for the return. Frankly it is the government and they can do whatever the hell they want. And they want their money. I was also under the impression we were not discussing any finances anymore – did that change again? I was offering ways to solve problems that would benefit both of us. I am not trying to restructure anything, simply offering potential mutually beneficial solutions to a predicament that affects you more than me at the moment. Again you have refused. I am not discussing the money I have or how I am going to pay my bills. This was simply an idea to solve a problem for both of us.
So, back to the main issue at hand. If you have just talked to me about the schedule like a decent person and maybe offered solutions to a compromise this could have gone different. My intent was not to dictate, but to outline the busy holiday season – make trade offs where it had a lesser impact to the kids, to me, to you and the out of town guests as well. You dictated a schedule. I said I didn't like it and asked you come to a compromise "I would However be open to moving my weekend days to during the week or trading you weekends". I didn't offer a solution because I know you have special events planned for all those days. My offer was to allow you to decide what days worked best for you.
For more posts about this mess go Here and Here
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